Seiten: 1 ... 6 7 [8] 9 10 ... 13
AntwortenDrucken
Autor Thema: I never liked hex & counter games that were not strategic level and someone...  (Gelesen 3044 mal)
Settembrini
Titan der Wahrheit
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Beiträge: 10467


AK20 des guten Geschmacks


« Antworten #105 am: Februar 07, 2010, 07:47:24 »
ZitierenZitat

BTW, is there an "Ernst Jünger Memorial" Squad Game? e. g. WWI Trenchfighting probably with Stormtroopers?

EDIT: I found out there´s  "Panzergrenadiere" port aptly called "Infantry Attacks". But it is by Avalanche Press.
« Letzte Änderung: Februar 07, 2010, 08:27:17 von Settembrini » Moderator informieren   Gespeichert

"Recht sehr zu wünschen, daß es in jedem Staate geben Männer möchte, welche bürgerliche Hoheit nicht blendet und bürgerliche Geringfügigkeit nicht ekelt; in deren Gesellschaft der Hohe sich gern herabläßt und der Geringe sich dreist erhebet."
Settembrini
Titan der Wahrheit
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Beiträge: 10467


AK20 des guten Geschmacks


« Antworten #106 am: Februar 07, 2010, 08:35:46 »
ZitierenZitat

Trenchfoot seems to be one game:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/8471/trenchfoot

Infantry  Attacks has companies as smallest units.
Moderator informieren   Gespeichert

"Recht sehr zu wünschen, daß es in jedem Staate geben Männer möchte, welche bürgerliche Hoheit nicht blendet und bürgerliche Geringfügigkeit nicht ekelt; in deren Gesellschaft der Hohe sich gern herabläßt und der Geringe sich dreist erhebet."
Pierce Inverarity
Sr. Member
****
Beiträge: 484


« Antworten #107 am: Februar 07, 2010, 17:24:33 »
ZitierenZitat

There are some WWI minis games, but it's a niche. Also, WWI depresses me, so I've never looked at them. I thik people don't play it for strategy but for the exotic tank designs.
Moderator informieren   Gespeichert
Settembrini
Titan der Wahrheit
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Beiträge: 10467


AK20 des guten Geschmacks


« Antworten #108 am: Februar 07, 2010, 19:11:02 »
ZitierenZitat

I would be mostly interested in the Infantry action. A very special case of continuous close combat, a 4 year Stalingrad, if you will. Ernst Jünger, Walter Flex, Rommel and some regimental histories make it sound pretty adventerous and interesting, militarily speaking.

Not the idiotic "line-up-to-get-shot"-narrative you get force-fed by "pedagogues" of the last decades.

Remember: After WWI it was the VETERANS who wanted another war. Not all, surely. But "Im Westen nichts Neues" is a heavy-handed moral lesson with BIG logic and factual holes in it. Way too easy to discredit, ultimately it did two bad things:

1) discredit Remarque and other peace-activists as being too liberal with facts as well as clueless re: front-life
2) provide a totally false and ridiculous picture of the soldier´s life in WWI for later generations

WWII was way more destructive and nihilistic in many ways. Way more depressing, I´d say. Aslo: more general stupidity.

Bonus: No problems playing Germans in WWI!

EDIT: Keep in mind that EVERY nation on this earth has a strong interest in glorifying themselves & the Wehrmacht. So the gigantic blunders of both Allies and Wehrmacht are swept under the carpet. One more thing: Stalinistic Soviet Russia. Gives me several layers of nihilistic chills.
« Letzte Änderung: Februar 07, 2010, 19:15:54 von Settembrini » Moderator informieren   Gespeichert

"Recht sehr zu wünschen, daß es in jedem Staate geben Männer möchte, welche bürgerliche Hoheit nicht blendet und bürgerliche Geringfügigkeit nicht ekelt; in deren Gesellschaft der Hohe sich gern herabläßt und der Geringe sich dreist erhebet."
Pierce Inverarity
Sr. Member
****
Beiträge: 484


« Antworten #109 am: Februar 07, 2010, 19:23:57 »
ZitierenZitat

It's been 20 years since I read Remarque. I did read Marmorklippen, Stahlbaeder, and the Arbeiter, as well as Theweleit, Male Fantasies, for context.

Germany came this close to a Communist Revolution for a reason, and the mass rebellion of French soldiers in the trenches, the Brussels soldier councils, and so forth didn't happen because people couldn't get enough of it. It was just Juenger and his kind who couldn't. Not sure what's adventurous about 4 years of Stalingrad...

No problems playing Germany? Au contraire, huge problems playing ANYBODY...

Moderator informieren   Gespeichert
Settembrini
Titan der Wahrheit
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Beiträge: 10467


AK20 des guten Geschmacks


« Antworten #110 am: Februar 07, 2010, 19:38:37 »
ZitierenZitat

Well, I don´t know. AFAIK, the inhumanity for the soldiers was a phenomenon of the allies, not so much the Imperial German Armies.

And the "communist" revolution, was really a republican one, if I am to believe Mr. Haffner.  Makes the 18/19 revolution even more tragic. Now THAT is what I´d call depressing.
Moderator informieren   Gespeichert

"Recht sehr zu wünschen, daß es in jedem Staate geben Männer möchte, welche bürgerliche Hoheit nicht blendet und bürgerliche Geringfügigkeit nicht ekelt; in deren Gesellschaft der Hohe sich gern herabläßt und der Geringe sich dreist erhebet."
Settembrini
Titan der Wahrheit
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Beiträge: 10467


AK20 des guten Geschmacks


« Antworten #111 am: Februar 07, 2010, 19:46:21 »
ZitierenZitat

Anyway, militarily, WWI is far more interesting than many people make it. I definitely stand by that.

EDIT: link added to something I read a loooooooong time ago.
« Letzte Änderung: Februar 08, 2010, 00:22:22 von Settembrini » Moderator informieren   Gespeichert

"Recht sehr zu wünschen, daß es in jedem Staate geben Männer möchte, welche bürgerliche Hoheit nicht blendet und bürgerliche Geringfügigkeit nicht ekelt; in deren Gesellschaft der Hohe sich gern herabläßt und der Geringe sich dreist erhebet."
Settembrini
Titan der Wahrheit
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Beiträge: 10467


AK20 des guten Geschmacks


« Antworten #112 am: Februar 08, 2010, 09:27:22 »
ZitierenZitat

I did some catch-up reading on Theweleit (don´t know if I should be embarassed that I never heard of him until now): Seems to have nothing to do with 1) In Stahlgewittern 2) Tactics in WWI 3) Any "Westphalian" German Military. AFAI understand, it´s about fascist terror = unrelated.

« Letzte Änderung: Februar 08, 2010, 09:30:41 von Settembrini » Moderator informieren   Gespeichert

"Recht sehr zu wünschen, daß es in jedem Staate geben Männer möchte, welche bürgerliche Hoheit nicht blendet und bürgerliche Geringfügigkeit nicht ekelt; in deren Gesellschaft der Hohe sich gern herabläßt und der Geringe sich dreist erhebet."
Pierce Inverarity
Sr. Member
****
Beiträge: 484


« Antworten #113 am: Februar 08, 2010, 15:02:44 »
ZitierenZitat

Th. has absolutely nothing to say about WWI trench warfare tactics, but everything about the psychology of the people who even after four years of it wanted still more of it, worked towards getting it, and did get it eventually.
Moderator informieren   Gespeichert
Pierce Inverarity
Sr. Member
****
Beiträge: 484


« Antworten #114 am: Februar 08, 2010, 15:12:18 »
ZitierenZitat

BTW, re. tactics/strategy in general, a propos Stahlgewitter, but also my recent reading on the Ardennes and above all Tolstoy on the battle of Borodino (IIRC) in War and Peace:

It seems to me a battlefield is a strange kind of zone, in which a huge number of events unfolds so rapidly and haphazardly that they look like strategy only in retrospect.

It's almost as if all you can do (not always but very often) is send in a rilly large number of well-trained soldiers and reliable materiel in there, pray for good weather, and hope for the best.


Moderator informieren   Gespeichert
Settembrini
Titan der Wahrheit
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Beiträge: 10467


AK20 des guten Geschmacks


« Antworten #115 am: Februar 08, 2010, 17:19:52 »
ZitierenZitat

Th. has absolutely nothing to say about WWI trench warfare tactics, but everything about the psychology of the people who even after four years of it wanted still more of it, worked towards getting it, and did get it eventually.

Ahh, okay, here lies the misunderstanding. My point wass a little bit more subtle:

Trench warfare wasn´t a [totally] nihilistic, random experience of slaughter and gore, a continous massacre. As such it was painted by several folks, thereby deluding the military truth. That is my point. There was tactics, skill & planning, freedom on the small unit level in many instances. And much more on the Imperial German side than on the others. Success and survival were also a function of effort (apart from random death) in the above factors.

This was mirrored to great effect by WWII. One factor keeping the Wehrmacht togethter till the very last days wasn´t fanaticism [which was rather a destructive force], but constant tactical offensive operations coupled with local successes that were dependant on effort, training, ingenuity etc.

The Wehrmacht was the ultimate Luhmannian socio-technocratic engine, born from the enlightened prussian military tradition. It also was the most 'humane' army of the second world war [for it´s members only, of course! Burning down Russian villages plus inhabitants was no problem]. This is the true [surpassing cthuloid] horror, that so many avoid.

In essence, many soldiers [and definitely not only the Freikorps types, including MANY liberals in every meaning of that word] had the impressions the were actually DOING something to make the bad times go away, in both wars, at least on the German side. Compare that to Vietnam, were there was widescale disintegration of discipline and unit cohesion, because of...[insert ongoing debate]...and the lack of feeling of having a stake or actually accomplishing anything. Also you must see that the whole male German population was in both wars, not only the Freikorps-types (who went to the SA to beat up GERMANS exactly as Theweleit etc. postulates).

It´s a very important thing to understand, and I feel too many have not grasped that. Creveld scratched the surface of it, but it goes deeper. French officers still occasionaly beat up their undrelings. Since Old Prussia, even touching an underling wasn´t allowed. Being in a functioning frontline formation bears no similarity to beat up and hunt/shoot helpless peopl etc..

The German Armies through it´s ingenious/devillish system could turn every sensitive, pacifistic piano player with loving mom and dad and wife into a functioning tank hunter and close combat specialist [who still hated killing, maybe Helmut Schmidt is an example], whereas the murder gangs and SA types were self recruiting. Don´t mix up the two, or you´ll miss something that´s crucial to the 20th century.

Zitat
It seems to me a battlefield is a strange kind of zone, in which a huge number of events unfolds so rapidly and haphazardly that they look like strategy only in retrospect.

It's almost as if all you can do (not always but very often) is send in a rilly large number of well-trained soldiers and reliable materiel in there, pray for good weather, and hope for the best.

It´s a continuum. Clausewitz was at Borodino and uses it as a great example of the strategy and tactics at the generals disposal. For every era of war it´s different, and in fact a thing which greatly interests me for modern times. For Napoleonic battles Clausewitz explains the fighting was a very gradual process. A division would fight some hours before any result would show. Thus his great emphasis on culmination points, retreat times, reserves and such. In fact, Napoleonic times were ones of rather great tactical and strategic richness, but not for the individual soldier. For WWI it was the other way around! [my argument]. And WWII saw great tactical AND strategic richness on nearly every level.

Other eras that lack stuff like the reserve or zweites treffen, there was a pre battle plan and a "Go!". Delbrück wonderully tracks the tactical and strategic richness or poverty of different eras through time.
« Letzte Änderung: Februar 08, 2010, 17:28:09 von Settembrini » Moderator informieren   Gespeichert

"Recht sehr zu wünschen, daß es in jedem Staate geben Männer möchte, welche bürgerliche Hoheit nicht blendet und bürgerliche Geringfügigkeit nicht ekelt; in deren Gesellschaft der Hohe sich gern herabläßt und der Geringe sich dreist erhebet."
Pierce Inverarity
Sr. Member
****
Beiträge: 484


« Antworten #116 am: Februar 09, 2010, 01:29:24 »
ZitierenZitat

I'd love to discuss this further, but shit has come up that I need to deal with. It's pretty exciting shit, thankfully, but it demands ole Pierce's full attention right now. Maybe next week.
Moderator informieren   Gespeichert
Settembrini
Titan der Wahrheit
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Beiträge: 10467


AK20 des guten Geschmacks


« Antworten #117 am: Februar 09, 2010, 01:31:42 »
ZitierenZitat

No hurry.
Moderator informieren   Gespeichert

"Recht sehr zu wünschen, daß es in jedem Staate geben Männer möchte, welche bürgerliche Hoheit nicht blendet und bürgerliche Geringfügigkeit nicht ekelt; in deren Gesellschaft der Hohe sich gern herabläßt und der Geringe sich dreist erhebet."
Pierce Inverarity
Sr. Member
****
Beiträge: 484


« Antworten #118 am: Februar 13, 2010, 23:14:00 »
ZitierenZitat

Meanwhile: hilarious thread on TMP, including guest appearance of an individual with a dry sense of humor who could be rather more famous than he is now--

http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=191097
Moderator informieren   Gespeichert
Pierce Inverarity
Sr. Member
****
Beiträge: 484


« Antworten #119 am: Februar 14, 2010, 02:04:46 »
ZitierenZitat

BTW, here is something incredibly cool. I don't know quite what to call it. PBEM FPS skirmish.

http://www.chtechnical.com/skirmish/example.php?gid=43
Moderator informieren   Gespeichert
Seiten: 1 ... 6 7 [8] 9 10 ... 13
AntwortenDrucken
Gehe zu: